2011-09-07 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: ❑A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 09/07/2011
Type of Meeting:
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
September 7, 2011
Petition to the Village of Buffalo for a variation of Section
16.50/080.A.2.b. of the Village Development Ordinance concerning
the width of a driveway apron in the public parkway
475 Thorndale Drive
Chairman Smith called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman
Smith read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure to be followed for the public hearing, and swore in all persons who
wished to give testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Smith
Mr. Khan
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Ms. Myer
Mr. Weinstein
Ms. Johnson
Commissioners absent: Ms. Bocek
Also present: Mr. Mark Goldstein, 475 Thorndale Drive
Ms. Beverly Sussman, Village Trustee
Mr. Mike Terson, Village Trustee
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Trustee
Mr. Brian Sheehan, Deputy
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing:
Exhibit 1: Photo of driveway at 475 Thorndale Drive in 1997
Exhibit 2: Photo of unsightly and unsafe rocks at 475 Thorndale Drive
Exhibit 3: Petition in support of changes to driveway at 475 Thorndale Drive made August
27, 2011
Exhibit 4: Photo of rocks
Exhibit 5: Photo example of driveway expansion at 471 Thorndale Drive
Exhibit 6: Photo of driveway at 809 Prairie and 730 Aberdeen
Exhibit 7: Photo of driveway at 803 Highland Grove
Exhibit 8: Photo of driveway at 810 Prairie Road and 818 Dunhill
Exhibit 9: Photo of driveway at 806 Prairie Road
Exhibit 10: Photo of driveway at 18 Wakefield
Exhibit 11: Photo of unsightly mailboxes at 481 and 487 Thorndale Drive
Exhibit 12: Photo of neighbor's unsightly driveway
Exhibit 13: Photo of unsightly driveway at 15 Sunridge
PETITION TO THE VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE FOR A VARIATION OF SECTION
16.50.080.A.2.B. OF THE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE CONCERNING THE
WIDTH OF A DRIVEWAY APRON IN THE PUBLIC PARKWAY
Mr. Goldstein stated they extended the driveway about 16 years ago to enable their daughter to
park her car. They had the landscaper put in some rocks for that purpose. He noted the Village
had approached them at one point and he was told it was fine and he did not have to worry about
it. That was many years ago. Over the years they replaced rocks as they broke down. He stated
the rocks were becoming dangerous due to the children on the block who were play with the
rocks and throwing them around.
Mr. Goldstein stated when he put in the pavers he actually made the area somewhat smaller and
thought he was doing a good thing by making the area level. He noted he sent his petition
around to his neighbors to see if they had any problem with his repair. He further noted three
other neighbors had gotten notices about violation of the code. He therefore went to the Village
to find out what he had done wrong and that is when he was told he should have gotten a permit
first.
Mr. Goldstein presented various photo exhibits of other properties and the various stages of
repairs, disrepair and expansions. He noted that apparently a while back there was an article that
had said all repairs prior to this ordinance were grandfathered in. He never saw this article.
At this point Mr. Goldstein presented further exhibits noting the size of some of the expansions
which well exceeded his reduced expansion. He noted again that he did not think he was
changing anything rather just repairing what was needed. He noted he called the Village
numerous times because he has never wanted to do anything wrong. The other people on his
street never responded to the notices sent by the Village and never had a problem. Mr. Goldstein
stated his intentions have been to only repair the base that still exits under the pavers.
Commissioner Khan asked when the concrete section of the driveway was put in.
Mr. Goldstein stated about 16 years ago.
Mr. Khan asked if the extended section of driveway was still being used for parking.
Mr. Goldstein stated yes.
Mr. Khan asked if Mr. Goldstein had more than two cars.
Mr. Goldstein stated they had only two cars but they have two grandchildren and they and their
son come over all the time and the section is definitely used.
Commissioner Myer asked what some of the dimensions might be on the other expanded
driveways in the area.
Mr. Goldstein stated he only has the pictures of some of the driveways that are larger.
Commissioner Myer noted that Mr. Goldstein does have a fair amount of green expanse to the
right of the expansion in contrast to some of the neighbors.
Mr. Goldstein stated that was partly why he reduced the size of the expansion and he also moved
his sprinkler system because they wanted to have some greenery.
Commissioner Myer asked how he felt about the Village's permitting process.
Mr. Goldstein stated he has always been very respectful of the process especially because he has
owned other properties in the Village and has always tried to do things right. He called the
contractor and tried to get them in here. But he does feel somewhat upset about being the only
one on the block to be summoned in especially since he was the only one who took the time to
do his due diligence. He said he feels the permit process is very important and he tries his best
to keep his property well kept and beautiful.
Commissioner Stark asked Mr. Goldstein who turned him in.
Mr. Goldstein said he was told that someone goes around complaining about many things. He
does not feel this person was aware of the fact that he had this already there. He feels this person
may have been upset that someone was putting in stones and did not realize it had been there for
16 years.
Commissioner Stark asked if this would now be promoting many other problems to come
forward to the Plan Commission like this.
Mr. Pfeil said it is possible that others have been legally grandfathered. The regulations were
changed a couple of years ago, but this doesn't necessarily mean that property owners with
non-conforming aprons would have to file for a variation. .
Commissioner Stark noted that even though this apron had been in place beforehand, it was just
that improvements were made that triggered this variation process.
Mr. Sheehan stated that driveways that already existed were going to be grandfathered in and
allowed to remain as is until any repairs or modifications were made at which time they would
have to be brought into compliance. There are many out there that are not in conformance and he
could not actually say that some had not been changed since then. The Village addresses
non-conforming properties when it is aware of modifications that have been made without a
permit.
Mr. Goldstein noted that perhaps it would have been a good idea to send letters or something to
those who had been grandfathered in and told so that they would be aware of this.
Commissioner Cohn stated he remembers the Plan Commission's role in drafting the Zoning
Ordinance amendments, and he knows the intent was not to have a situation like this. There may
be many others who are trying to do the right thing and it is impractical to have them all come to
the Plan Commission for variations. He said he is most concerned with the arbitrariness that can
occur or that the ordinance is defective. He asked how the Village can deal with this. He
understands the goal is to bring these things back into compliance with the specific requirements
of the ordinance but it seems that if someone has something that exists and they create something
that improves what is there that should be allowed to happen. Are we going to treat everyone in
this situation in the same way and are we just going to do this week after week which will not
work. It does not seem fair that someone trying to do the right thing is here and everyone else is
not.
Mr. Sheehan stated they have had people who have done expansions or are in the process of
doing them without a permit when it is brought to the Village's attention. There are also people
who have brought their driveways into conformance. He noted he cannot say for sure that the
Village will know about every non-conforming situation modified without a permit. The Village
acts on what staff sees in the field and on complaints. This situation was brought to his attention
by someone on this block.
Commissioner Cohn asked if it is appropriate in every situation where someone has done this to
require that it become undone.
Mr. Sheehan noted that once something is changed it is a trigger throughout all building codes,
sign codes and all the codes.
Commissioner Cohn asked if that encourages people to allow their situations to deteriorate and
not repair them at all.
Mr. Sheehan stated that is a potential.
Commissioner Cohn asked if Mr. Sheehan has seen that happen that since we have this
ordinance now people are allowing their non-conforming widened driveways to deteriorate
further than they otherwise would have because they are afraid they will have to bring them into
compliance.
Mr. Sheehan stated he has seen some pictures of some that are badly deteriorated but why that is
occurring he does not know.
Chairman Smith inquired if the Village has sent letters to the people who have driveways or
aprons that are not in compliance.
Mr. Sheehan stated that since the Zoning Ordinance was amended, every driveway permit that is
issued is photographed at the final inspection and added to the Village's records as base
information that can be reviewed to determine if any subsequent modifications have been done.
He stated they do not have a complete list of all non-conforming driveways. He noted that the
Village could do another information program with letters to property owners, newsletter articles
and website postings, but it's difficult to be sure that everyone has received and acknowledged
the information.
Chairman Smith said he thinks that if residents received letters they would read them, so it seems
like a good idea to provide information in this manner.
Commissioner Weinstein asked if there were any changes made to the driveway on the property.
Mr. Goldstein showed a picture of some pavers he put in so that it looked consistent with the
apron.
Commissioner Weinstein noted that there was no expansion to the cement driveway which is 25
feet and has been there for 16 years. He asked how wide the area was.
Mr. Goldstein stated it was probably another foot wider and he just put seed and grass over it.
Commissioner Weinstein stated it is not good to set a precedent because once they start granting
variations it is hard to tell other people they cannot get a variation.
Mr. Goldstein noted that he does feel that they were somewhat targeted because other people
who got notices of violation and did not respond got away with it.
Commissioner Cohn asked if Mr. Goldstein had received any direct notice from the Village from
the time the ordinance became effective and the time he made the changes.
Mr. Goldstein stated no and that is why he stated he missed the article that apparently ran in the
paper.
Mr. Sheehan noted it was an article in the village newsletter.
Commissioner Khan asked if it would be fair to say that this portion of the driveway was not
used 99 percent of the time.
Mr. Goldstein stated they do have a car on there at least 3 to 4 days per week and this is because
his children come often and drops off her children and they would have to move the car all the
time. The street is not in great shape and somewhat narrow and yes, they do use the spot on a
frequent basis.
Commissioner Khan asked Mr. Sheehan how many non-conforming driveways there may be.
Mr. Sheehan stated he is not personally aware of any driveways that may have been modified
since the ordinance that have not been addressed by the Village.
Commissioner Khan asked if any other letters have been sent to any residents that their driveway
and apron are illegal.
Mr. Sheehan stated yes.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the Village has ever made a resident undo an improperly repaired
non-conforming use.
Mr. Sheehan stated he has just finished one on Redbud. They were putting in a driveway at 18
feet at the sidewalk and the existing driveway below the sidewalk was at 16 feet and flare out to
23 feet which is not in conformance. After conversations with the contractor and homeowner
they decided to cut down the driveway to 21 feet at the curb and expand it from there up to the
18 feet at the sidewalk.
Commissioner Cohn asked what were the similarities to this present property.
Mr. Sheehan stated he cannot think of any with the exact same similarities.
Commissioner Cohn asked about the two neighbors of Mr. Goldstein.
Mr. Sheehan stated one of the neighbors on the list was actually using pavers for repairs in the
back of his house.
Mr. Goldstein reiterated there was one neighbor who had been told not to do it but went ahead
and did it anyway. He also noted he kept calling the Village consistently to try to ensure he was
not doing anything wrong.
Commissioner Weinstein asked if there was any reason that it would cause Mr. Goldstein any
hardship if he was asked to make the change if the Village required it.
Mr. Goldstein stated yes. He noted he would have to change his sprinkler system and then pay
for that repair and remove his basketball net. It would cost him thousands.
Chairman Goldstein asked if the signatures on the petition were signed by everyone or if anyone
refused.
Mr. Goldstein stated no.
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Smith closed
the public hearing at 8:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
ERIC SMITH, Chair
Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 09/07/2011
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
September 7, 2011
475 Thorndale Drive
Variation of Development Ordinance concerning
driveway apron width and taper in the public parkway
Village Zoning Ordinance - Consideration of amendments concerning
The storage and sale of propane at commercial properties —
Workshop #2
Chairman Smith called the meeting to order at 8:25 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Smith
Mr. Khan
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Ms. Myer
Mr. Weinstein
Ms. Johnson
Commissioners absent: Ms. Bocek
Also present: Mr. Mark Goldstein, 475 Thorndale Drive
Ms. Beverly Sussman, Village Trustee
Mr. Mike Terson, Village Trustee
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Trustee
Mr. Brian Sheehan, Deputy
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Mr. Marty Sussman
Moved by Commissioner Weinstein, seconded by Commissioner Myer to approve the minutes of
the regular meeting of July 6, 2011. This is for approval of the portion of the minutes that do not
include the proposed Chase Bank facility. All Commissioners were in favor of the amended
motion and the motion passed unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Stark, seconded by Commissioner Myer to approve the minutes
containing the Chase Bank facility portion. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion with
Commissioner Weinstein abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Stark attended the Village Board meeting on July 25, 2011; the Board appointed
Commissioner Denice Bocek as the Vice Chair of Plan Commission, and Commissioner Zill
Khan as secretary of the Plan Commission. It was also announced that there are volunteer
opportunities for service to the Village, including an opening on the Plan Commission. Residents
interested in serving can submit an application to the Village Talent Bank. The Board approved
an ordinance granting a special use to Xtreme Trampolines to operate a recreation facility in the
Industrial District.
475 THORNDALE DRIVE—VARIATION OF DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE
CONCERNING DRIVEWAY APRON WIDTH AND TAPER IN THE PUBLIC PARKWAY
Moved by Commissioner Weinstein, seconded by Commissioner Myer to recommend approval
to the Village Board of the petition by Mark Goldstein for a variation of Section
16.50.080.A.2.b. of the Village Development Ordinance concerning the width of a driveway
apron in the public parkway for the property at 475 Thorndale Drive, Buffalo Grove.
Commissioner Khan noted the point in favor of the request is that Mr. Goldstein already had
rocks at the same location with the same dimensions, and he has improved the apron by
replacing the rocks with pavers. He stated this should be treated as legal non-conforming and he
will vote in favor of the request.
Commissioner Cohn stated in administrative law there are rules administered and enforced by
regulatory agencies. The agencies must enforce the rules uniformly. He stated that the current
case regarding 475 Thorndale seems to be a situation where the resident did not have adequate
information concerning the Village's regulations and policies, and there may be other property
owners with similar non-conforming aprons. He said that Village staff and Trustees need to
figure out a way to ensure uniform administration and enforcement of the ordinance for
non-conforming aprons and driveways. There appears to be a lack of communication by the
Village to residents concerning the regulations. He is not convinced that there is a mechanism in
place now to deal with the problem. It would be unfair to treat one property owner one way and
others another way. From that you have a hardship that is endured by someone who is an
upstanding member of the community who goes above and beyond to do the right thing and gets
caught up in this jam. He will vote in favor of the variance, but the Village needs to evaluate
ways to minimize the potential for future variation requests by other properties owners with
similar circumstances.
Chairman Smith called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Khan, Stark, Cohn, Myer, Weinstein, Johnson, Smith
NAYS: None
ABSENT: Bocek
ABSTAIN: None
The motion passed 7 to 0.
VILLAGE ZONING ORDINANCE — CONSIDERATION OF AMENDMENTS
CONCERNING THE STORAGE AND SALE OF PROPANE AT COMMERCIAL
PROPERTIES—WORKSHOP#2
Mr. Pfeil noted that since the July workshop on this topic a letter has been received from
Walgreens concerning the justification for propane sales their stores. The current zoning
regulations limit propane sales and storage to gasoline service stations and properties in the B4
District. One issue that has previously been raised by the Plan Commission is whether there is a
documented need to expand the supply to serve the demand for this product in the community. If
more points of sale are allowed at locations including retail stores, issues relating to safety and
aesthetics would need to be addressed. Safety standards and other codes would be reviewed and
enforced by the Village Fire Department and Building and Zoning Department.
Mr. Pfeil commented that regulations allowing points of sale at retail stores should include a
review process to ensure that pedestrian access is maintained on sidewalks adjacent to the
storage cages, and to evaluate the appearance of the storage cages and signage.
Chairman Smith asked the reasoning for the limitation to gas stations and the B-4 District when
the current regulations were developed.
Mr. Pfeil said that there were concerns about safety and proper management of the storage
facilities. The Fire Department provided input to address proper storage at appropriate locations
and protection from accidents, particularly relating to motor vehicles.
Chairman Smith asked if there have been a flood of calls from people requesting more propane
locations.
Mr. Pfeil stated he has not personally had any calls from residents asking for more locations to
buy propane.
Mr. Tony Crawley, Distribution Manager for Blue Rhino Propane of Illinois stated in January of
2011 they became the national provider for Walgreens in the Illinois and Wisconsin territory.
They have added about 400 stores and in the month of July alone those 400 stores equaled
18,000 plus cylinders. When you break it down to a demand number the average store in the
drug category it is anticipated they sell approximately 63 cylinders per month which is about 700
cylinders per year. The reason why it would be important to have propane here in Buffalo Grove
is because Walgreens also has national advertisements. Therefore if they have propane in
Buffalo Grove it allows them to capitalize on the advertising they put into place. He stated he
believes people would come in requesting that product because they see it in the paper.
Mr. Justin Ronnie of the Walgreens store at 15 Buffalo Grove Road stated he has been at the
store about year and a couple of people come in every month asking for it.
Commissioner Myer asked if it part of Walgreens corporate strategy that at Walgreens locations
this product be provided.
Mr. Ronnie stated it is frequently put into ad papers on sale and so on.
Commissioner Weinstein asked Mr. Crawley if approval has been requested in Vernon Hills.
Mr. Crawley stated the matter is under review.
Commissioner Weinstein asked if there is any other type of cage that might blend in with the
background or the building or any other type of material that would be less of a contrast to the
Walgreens building.
Mr. Crawley stated the design of the cage is what it is but what they have done in some cases is
painted the cages to match the exterior of the buildings they are at.
Commissioner Weinstein asked if there have been any problems with locating the cages
underneath windows of the structure.
Mr. Crawley stated no.
Commissioner Weinstein noted that some of these cages located in gas stations have pylons put
between the parking area and the cages which he presumes are there intentionally to prevent cars
from driving into the cages. He asked if that is typical.
Mr. Crawley stated the NFPA noted that if a propane display is set on the curb it needs to be at
least 5 feet from the edge of curb and if it is not it must be protected by some kind of crash
protection device.
Commissioner Cohn asked if 5 feet is enough or is that just what is required by the code.
Mr. Crawley stated that is what the code requires and from his experience he does believe that is
enough.
Commissioner Cohn asked if he was familiar with any incidence where there was an unprotected
cage that was more than 5 feet from the curb that got hit.
Mr. Crawley stated it happens but it is more the exception than the rule.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the Village were to require more regardless of the distance from the
curb would that be an issue.
Mr. Crawley stated absolutely not.
Commissioner Cohn noted Walgreens has listed a bunch of Villages and municipalities
proximate to Buffalo Grove that allow this. He asked if any of these towns had to modify their
ordinances to allow this use at the Walgreens.
Mr. Crawley stated the one he is certain where the amendment has been changed is in Glenview.
The ordinance changed there was the actual amount of propane that can be stored.
Mr. Pfeil indicated that if the Commission wants to proceed with Zoning Ordinance
amendments, the next step would be review of the draft text at a public hearing.
Commissioner Cohn asked what the reason why this was originally specifically banned in the
business districts.
Mr. Pfeil commented that the product is regulated in terms of storage and safety, so it has to be
handled with more care than many other products at retail stores. Also, storage of products
outside of retail stores is generally allowed only for temporary seasonal merchandise.
Commissioner Cohn asked if there has been any improvement to safety or new regulations that
have come down that have improved the status quo that makes this now something that people
would look at differently from the Village.
Mr. Sheehan noted that the zoning regulations were initially modified when these type of
exchanges for propane containers were first made available to customers. NFPA came forward
with regulations, and there have not been a lot of safety problems.
Commissioner Cohn noted therefore that there is new industry regulations that people are
conforming to that are acceptable.
Chairman Smith asked if there would be other businesses allowed to have this if we allowed it
here.
Mr. Sheehan noted it would depend on the specific location. There are some stores that have
expressed an interest in this but would not be allowed based on the design of the building. There
are requirements such as the distance from windows and doors.
Mr. Sussman asked how close storage cages could be to an entrance door of a building.
Mr. Crawley noted that if a store has only one door then it must be at least 10 feet away from the
door. But if there are two points of egress then it must be at least 5 feet away.
Mr. Sussman asked if storage cages would block sidewalk routes for handicapped accessibility.
Mr. Crawley stated the sidewalks at Walgreens have a width of more than 5 feet. The depth of
the cage is 29 inches, so there is a path of 2 feet where someone can easily get through. The
cages can be installed in a manner that allows enough room for a wheelchair to pass.
All commissioners were in favor of a public hearing. Commissioner Weinstein noted he would,
however, be interested in requirements about the NFPA and perhaps expanding on those
minimums depending on the situation. Secondly, distance from a door might need to be more
than 5 feet. In addition, if there is anything to be done to appearance without making it cost
prohibitive it would be a plus.
Commissioner Cohn asked if there is an opportunity as part of an ordinance to approve these on
a case by case basis.
Mr. Pfeil said the best approach may be to require a specific review for each request to evaluate
the details concerning safety, pedestrian access and appearance. He noted that aesthetics need to
be looked at very carefully as well as safety. Pedestrian access is very important adjacent to
stores to avoid situations where people have to walk around obstructions on the sidewalk.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil said the next meeting would probably be October 5, 2011.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT
Mr. Pfeil noted that the American Planning Association is offering a training session on October
6 in Evanston for plan commissioners. The Village will pay the registration fee for
commissioners who want to attend.
Mr. Pfeil said that the RTA is initiating a program to work with Buffalo Grove and several other
communities to review zoning and design guidelines for the areas around transit facilities
including Metra stations. The RTA is interested in helping communities implement plans
relating to transit oriented development. A consultant will be retained to work with the
communities in evaluating current zoning and design guidelines and possible modifications to
encourage appropriate development.
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Weinstein, seconded by Commissioner Myer and carried unanimously
to adjourn. Chairman Smith adjourned the meeting at 9:00 p.m.
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
ERIC SMITH, Chair
MEMO
TO: Plan Commission
FROM: Robert E. Pfeil,Village Planner
DATE: September 30, 2011
SUBJECT: Minutes of Regular Meeting, September 7, 2011
The draft minutes distributed in the hardcopy packet on September 30th include only the
portion pertaining to the driveway apron at 475 Thorndale Drive.
The complete set of minutes for the Regular Meeting will be distributed prior to the October 5
meeting.
Robert E. Pfeil, Village Planner