2011-10-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: ❑A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 10/05/2011
Type of Meeting:
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
October 5, 2011
Consideration of amendments to the Buffalo Grove Zoning Ordinance,
Title 17 of the Buffalo Grove Municipal Code concerning the storage,
Display and sale of propane in Business Districts
Chairman Smith called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman
Smith read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure to be followed for the public hearing, and swore in all persons who
wished to give testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Smith
Ms. Bocek
Mr. Khan
Mr. Cohn
Mr. Weinstein
Ms. Johnson
Commissioners absent: Mr. Stark
Ms. Myer
Also present: Mr. Tony Crawley, Blue Rhino
Ms. Beverly Sussman, Village Trustee
Mr. Andrew Stein, Village Trustee
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Brian Sheehan, Deputy Village Commissioner of Operations
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing:
Exhibit 1: Memo from Mr. Pfeil to the Plan Commission dated September 30, 2011
Mr. Pfeil reviewed the background of the request noting they have gotten requests from Blue
Rhino and Walgreens indicating an interest in being able to store and sell propane canisters at
some of their retail stores which probably includes supermarkets such as Dominicks. He stated
they have not had a request from Jewel but can probably expect that if the ordinance is changed.
Clearly there can be more presence of this product in the community if the ordinance is changed.
The current ordinance allows propane sale and storage in B-2, B-3 and B-4 districts, but limited
to gas stations in the B-2 and B-3 Districts. The number of locations now selling propane is
relatively small. In the B-4 District the only business that sells it is Zimmermann's Hardware.
Mr. Pfeil stated the draft amendments are somewhat conceptual and can be changed as suggested
by the testimony or commissioner input. He explained that a more detailed review process is set
forth in the proposed regulations. Requirements include a site plan drawn to scale which would
show how large the facility would be and where the proximate doors, windows and sidewalks are
located. Color photographs of the proposed facility and related signage would be required for the
appearance review package.
Mr. Pfeil noted that the proposed standards would limit storage cages to 7 feet 6 inches in length
along the wall of a building, and a height of 5 feet. This would have the effect of limiting the
facility to two cages at a typical retail store. There would be review of the clearance on
sidewalks adjacent to the facility to ensure that pedestrian access is maintained. The Village Fire
Department would review the site plan and make recommendations about whether protective
barriers may be needed in some situations. The Fire Department and Building and Zoning
Department would administer all life, safety and related codes to ensure the product is safely
stored and protected.
Mr. Pfeil stated the appearance review process proposal would be administrative which means
Village staff including the Deputy Village Manager, Village Planner, Deputy Building
Commissioner and several people with expertise in architecture and design would conduct the
review. If there are issues that can't be resolved at the staff level, a review including the Plan
Commission may be needed. The intent of the appearance review process is to maintain an
attractive visual appearance at the business and keep the propane facility as unobtrusive as
possible. .
Commissioner Cohn noted BG Pantry might be one proposed location and he thought BG Pantry
is requesting a liquor license and is converting to a full time liquor store. Therefore, is that still a
place that Blue Rhino wants to do this because a full time liquor store might not be the ideal
place for propane display.
Mr. Sheehan stated based on the criteria outlined by Mr. Pfeil it does not appear it would be a
candidate for these containers just based on the sidewalk width and the distance to windows and
doors.
Commissioner Cohn asked if this is allowed at Dominicks and supermarkets and Walgreens if
new revenue is anticipated. He asked if the total amount of revenue coming to the Village would
be increased by doing this or will it be the same but via more locations.
Mr. Pfeil stated he has not done a fiscal impact analysis so he does not know what the net gain
would be to the Village. He suggested that the market demand may expand somewhat, but
possible the existing demand will just be redistributed.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the current supply via the gas stations is or is not adequate and is
there a real need for more facilities.
Mr. Pfeil stated in his opinion the Village is adequately served as far as propane available now
but he does not know if all the residents in the Village would have the same opinion, and there
may be some testimony as far as any marketing issues that come into play. He said he is not
aware of any resident requests for propane to be sold at more locations in the Village.
Commissioner Weinstein stated he was thinking along the same lines as Commissioner Cohn as
to whether we are really redistributing what is already being sold in the Village and is it taking
away from what might be getting purchased outside the Village. There are some locations on the
edge of the Village such as Walmart etc. where people might already getting their needs filled.
Ultimately he is not sure if it would impact those places in the Village or if it would take away
some of the business from neighboring communities where the product is being sold.
Chairman Smith stated he does not think the issue is as much about the revenue but feels the
importance to the Village should be the appearance. If there are too many of these on every
corner it might not be desirable.
Chairman Smith asked if every petitioner would have to come before the ART team.
Mr. Pfeil stated that is the proposal in front of the Commission tonight. But it would be an
administrative review so it would be somewhat more convenient for businesses in terms of
scheduling review sessions during day time business hours.
Chairman Smith noted it would then be on a case by case basis.
Mr. Pfeil stated that is correct.
Mr. Crawley from Blue Rhino stated one of the major concerns for any Village as they look to
make amendments to storage and sale of propane is the profit that occurs. He stated Blue Rhino
uses a five step process in order to set multiple displays. The first step is a tax paying member of
the community is seeking to have propane installed at that particular address. The second thing
that happens is a permit is filed and after that they go out and draw up a site plan. That site plan
indicates everything that was mentioned such as the actual dimensions of the store, the proposed
locations of the displays, how many cylinders they plan to install at that particular location and
whether the electrical outlets or any other external fixtures are at play. After that has been drawn
up it is submitted to the Village Fire Marshal for his approval and we take into account any
considerations that have to be made and then they come back and set the display.
Mr. Crawley noted that before they install any propane the cylinders as displayed without any
propane in them in order to have the Fire Marshal and any other building inspectors or landlords
to visit that property to approve the installation of the displays. If they need to make adjustments
they can then do so and the Fire Marshall comes back for a final approval and then they actually
deliver the cylinders.
Chairman Smith asked Mr. Crawley if had seen the Village proposal.
Mr. Crawley stated no.
Mr. Pfeil noted he had sent an email with the memo.
Mr. Crawley stated he did not see it.
Commissioner Bocek asked why this proposal should be considered.
Mr. Crawley stated it should be considered because Walgreens has become the number one tank
exchange provider in Illinois. Last year they sold approximately 350 new Walgreens and that
allowed them to transact or sell 60,000 more cylinders than the next leading competitor in a two
month time frame. The reason that this is important to Walgreens as a brand is they are their
national provider and secondly they are positioning themselves to compete with mass merchants
because they can do the job quicker and a lot less cost efficient than a lot of the mass merchants
are able to do it at this point.
Chairman Smith noted one of the proposals in the amendments was that the storage cages would
be a maximum of 7 feet 6 inches and asked if that is something in Blue Rhino's realm of
possibility.
Mr. Crawley stated he thinks a width of a display is about 36 inches.
Chairman Smith asked how the Village came up with these dimensions.
Mr. Pfeil stated that was based on field measurements and other information they have reviewed
showing the height and width of two cages side by side.
Mr. Pfeil noted there are some communities in the immediate area that have Walgreens stores
but do not allow any outside storage.
Mr. Crawley stated that is correct.
Mr. Pfeil asked Mr. Crawley if they are applying for any zoning action in any communities that
currently prohibit outside storage.
Mr. Crawley noted they have applied and been denied in some of those areas simply because
they do not allow outside sales of any kind.
Mr. Pfeil asked if there are appearance review requirements or processes they have gone through
in other communities concerning the color of the cages and signage.
Mr. Crawley stated not in the communities. However, when they because the national provider
for Safeway they decided they wanted the appearance of the cage to be more aesthetically
pleasing to their store layout. No other Village has demanded or requested a cage in a particular
color. The only request has been that they are clean and rust free.
Mr. Pfeil asked if Blue Rhino has the ability to modify the color of cages based on local
conditions.
Mr. Crawley stated yes.
Mr. Pfeil asked if there are different sizes of signage to go on the cages especially smaller
signage.
Mr. Crawley stated there is one standard size on the front panel and the reason it is that size is
because it has regulatory information displayed on the front of that sign. If you reduce that sign
then it reduces the visibility of that regulatory information.
Mr. Pfeil noted the Village would probably want to be reducing the size of the Blue Rhino sign
letters.
Mr. Pfeil asked if Mr. Crawley had any comments about the market demand generally in Buffalo
Grove as far as how much propane residents and other users are demanding now and how that
might change if Blue Rhino successfully installs cages in some of the supermarkets and all the
Walgreens stores.
Mr. Crawley stated what they have seen for stores they have installed in this area is that
Walgreens averages about 63 cylinders per month. As they install more accounts for Walgreens
they expect that number to go up because it creates an environment of less travel by the
consumer. They can go to one location and get all of their errands addressed at that one location.
Mr. Pfeil asked how the product is used in the cold weather months.
Mr. Crawley noted there are die-hard people who grill all year. Other uses are construction for
refurbishing properties without heat. A lot of recreational fishermen and hunters also use it as a
source of heat.
Mr. Pfeil asked if those types of users who are both contractors and people who are using it for
recreational purposes actually go to Walgreens for that product or are they more likely to go to a
building supply store such as Home Depot or other contractor service.
Mr. Crawley noted contractors tend to pick up the product at the location that is closest to where
they are working. The more recreational type user tends to get the propane at a sporting goods
store or a Walmart type place where they can also get hunting or fishing equipment.
Mr. Pfeil asked the statistics given on how many cylinders sold by month varies by the month of
the year.
Mr. Crawley stated yes the number does vary with the busiest months being seen in March going
through Labor Day. The 63 cylinders sold is an average for the year.
Commissioner Khan noted the proposed amendment says a sidewalk at a proposed facility
should be maintained with a minimum of 5 feet of clearance. So if the sidewalk itself is just 5
feet wide and goes all around the building and the cage is 29 inches the case itself is going to
take 2 '/z feet of the space leaving just under 2 '/z feet. This does not go along with the proposed
amendment.
Mr. Crawley stated to date he has not done that survey.
Mr. Sheehan noted that supermarkets typically have sidewalks that could provide the 5 foot area
in front of the storage cages, but he has not reviewed the Walgreens stores or other retail
locations.
Mr. Pfeil asked if a somewhat smaller sidewalk clearance width would be appropriate.
Mr. Sheehan noted that when asked what the minimum width would be his response was that the
code requirements would be a 36 inch clear width and that would be with access for people with
accessibility needs. That would be the minimum and obviously the Board could choose to make
whatever requirement they want.
Mr. Pfeil stated one issue about clearance for pedestrians is that a code minimum of 36 inches
could create situations with vehicle bumper overhang that has the practical effect of reducing the
pedestrian clearance to less than 36 inches. Then it becomes an enforcement situation if the
Village receives complaints from pedestrians about the lack of access. .
Mr. Sheehan noted that currently the parking stall standard in the zoning ordinance requires a
length of 18 '/2 feet, that can be reduced to 16 feet if space is available for a 2 '/2 foot curb
overhang. If that is the situation, 36 clear inches is not going to be maintained.
Trustee Stein asked in relation to the clearance if that is with the door open or closed on the
cabinet.
Mr. Sheehan noted these cages are required to be maintained shut. They would be opened
obviously for an exchange but the process is short and the clearance would be looked at with the
door closed.
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Smith closed
the public hearing at 8:03 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
ERIC SMITH, Chair
Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 10/05/2011
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
October 5, 2011
Village Zoning Ordinance— Consideration of amendments concerning the
Storage and sale of propane at commercial properties in Business Districts
Chairman Smith called the meeting to order at 8:03 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present; Chairman Smith
Ms. Bocek
Mr. Khan
Mr. Cohn
Mr. Weinstein
Ms. Johnson
Commissioners absent: Mr. Stark
Ms. Myer
Also present: Mr. Tony Crawley, Blue Rhino
Ms. Beverly Sussman, Village Trustee
Mr. Andrew Stein, Village Trustee
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Brian Sheehan, Deputy Village Commissioner of Operations
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Bocek, seconded by Commissioner Khan to approve the minutes of the
public hearing of September 7, 2011. Commissioner Weinstein noted a change necessary on
page 2, paragraph 1 to the word park instead of parker and a change on page 3 to strike the word
pure as stated by Mr. Goldstein, as well as the spelling of his name.
All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the motion passed unanimously
with Commissioner Bocek abstaining.
Moved by Commissioner Cohn, seconded by Commissioner Weinstein to approve the regular
minutes of September 7, 2011. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion
passed unanimously with Commissioner Bocek abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Cohn attended the Village Board meeting on October 3, 2011 and noted the 475
Thorndale driveway matter was approved and the Board enacted an ordinance consistent with
the recommendation of the Plan Commission.
VILLAGE ZONING ORDINANCE — CONSIDERATION OF AMENDMENTS
CONCERNING THE STORAGE AND SALE OF PROPANE AT COMMERCIAL
PROPERTIES IN BUSINESS DISTRICTS
Moved by Commissioner Weinstein, seconded by Commissioner Khan to recommend approval
to the Village Board for the proposed amendments to the Buffalo Grove Zoning Ordinance, Title
17 of the Buffalo Grove Municipal Code concerning the storage, display and sale of propane in
Business Districts in accordance with the draft amendments presented as attached to the
September 30, 2011 memo to the Plan Commission from Robert Pfeil.
Commissioner Cohn stated he does not see any compelling need to do this. There is no pent up
demand that is being underserved and it seems this will just clutter up store fronts. If there are
no residents demanding this and there is no indication that the Village is going to be losing
anything by not doing this, he believes there is a downside to doing this with nothing compelling
to make it worthwhile. He feels residents will be more disserved by having cluttered up
Walgreens and Dominicks stores that really don't need to be in place in our community and will
therefore vote no.
Commissioner Weinstein stated he feels that since Walgreens has submitted a letter requesting
this it is an indication that Walgreens which is a national business based in Deerfield and has
local stores in Buffalo Grove has a right to this. He noted he does have a strong concern about
the appearance issue which will have to be monitored closely and the appearance committee will
be involved in every request and that is the correct way to handle this. He feels as long as the
issues addressed in the draft amendment are followed this is something that a local business is
requesting and he would be in favor of this.
Commissioner Bocek stated she will side with Commission Cohn on this one. She stated she
does not see the driving demand and she also does not feel that ART team review of propane
enclosures will be able to adequately improve the appearance of these facilities. She also noted
she is not a huge fan of variances while we do not even know if the Walgreens sidewalks are
large enough to accommodate the 5 foot clearance which means the vendor would come back
asking for a variance on an amendment to the current zoning ordinance. Therefore she will vote
no.
Chairman Smith called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Khan, Weinstein, Johnson, Smith
NAYS: Bocek, Cohn
ABSENT: Stark
ABSTAIN: None
The motion passed 4 to 2.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil said there are items ready for the next regular meeting on October 19. The next regular
meeting date is November 2, 2011.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT
Mr. Pfeil reported that Prime Source Healthcare is requesting a change to the wall sign approved
for the building at 2100 Lake Cook Road in the Riverwalk development. .
Mr. Sheehan noted that the PUD ordinance for Riverwalk was amended in 2010 to allow a wall
sign based on review and recommendation of the Plan Commission. The ordinance included an
exhibit that would be modified by the current request. PrimeSource is requesting a modification
to delete the word "Healthcare" from the second line of the sign. PrimeSource has advised the
Village that the deletion is necessary to avoid litigation with another company. The sign
dimensions and appearance would be the same as the sign approved in 2010. The actual sign
copy would be smaller due to the deletion of "Healthcare." The proposed change cannot be
approved administratively. Staff requests comment from the Plan Commission concerning
whether a formal proposal should be reviewed by the Commission, or should the request be
handled directly by the Village Board.
Mr. Raysa indicated that a polling could be done on the question of requiring a formal review by
the Plan Commission. .
Chairman Smith called for a polling as to whether the Commission wants to review the request at
a future meeting or should the request be sent directly to the Village Board.
Commissioners Bocek, Cohn, Weinstein and Johnson indicated that the request does not need to
have a formal review by the Plan Commission. Commissioner Khan indicated that the
Commission should review the proposal.
NEW BUSINESS -None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Cohn, seconded by Commissioner Bocek and carried unanimously to
adjourn. Chairman Smith adjourned the meeting at 8:17 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
ERIC SMITH, Chair