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2011-01-11 - Appearance Review Team - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑Appearance Review Team Document Type: ❑Agenda 0 Minutes Meeting Date: 01/11/2011 Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting ART (Appearance Review Team) Meeting JANUARY 11, 2011 1500 ABBOTT COURT, TWIN RINKS ICE PAVILION GROUND SIGN - CHANGEABLE COPY GROUND SIGN PRESENT Ghida Neukirch, Deputy Village Manager Carol Berman, Deputy Building Commissioner/Administration Brian Sheehan, Deputy Building Commissioner/Operations Robert Pfeil, Village Planner Joe Wallace, Plan Examiner Louis Windecker, ZBA Commissioner Gary Pivar, Twin Rinks Ice Pavilion Tom Wood, White Way Sign Company PROPOSAL Request is being made by White Way Sign & Maintenance Company, 451 Kinston Court, Mount Prospect, Illinois 60056 on behalf of Twin Rinks Ice Pavilion, 1500 Abbott Court, for variance of Sign Code, Section 14.40.025, pertaining to Changeable Copy Signs, for the purpose of replacing the existing manual changeable copy portion of the ground sign with a LED digital display. Mr. Sheehan explained that there was a previous ART meeting conducted on November 3, 2010. The request then went to the Zoning Board of Appeals (ZBA)on November 16, 2010, at which time Mr. Pivar requested to Table the hearing in order to schedule an additional ART review to try and come to a consensus regarding the proposed sign. Mr. Sheehan stated that he reviewed the minutes of the November 3, 2010 ART meeting and believes that he would like to clarify a couple of issues. At the November 3, 2010 ART meeting testimony was provided that the intent of the sign was not to display videos. However, at the ZBA it was testified to that the petitioner did want to use the proposed sign to display video segments. Mr. Sheehan asked Mr. Pivar to clarify his intended use of the proposed sign. Mr. Pivar stated that if he could get everything that he wanted he would like a color sign where he can display images and videos and change the copy every five (5) seconds and leave the sign on twenty four (24) hours a day. He understands that not all those things will be allowed, but he would like to start with what he would like if he could have anything he wanted. Mr. Sheehan confirmed that the Village understood what the petitioner would like to have, but at this meeting in order to reach a consensus, Mr. Pivar was being asked what he would accept. Mr. Pivar stated that he believes eventually the Village will have to allow color signs because that is the course the world is going. If he lives with a mono sign now, ultimately he would have to incur the cost of having to upgrade the sign when someone else comes along in a couple years that has more contacts with the Board or a bigger interest in getting a sign. If he is going to lose the battle and go with a mono sign, OK. The graphics that Mr. Wood's showed him, the sign could have a picture of the Stevenson logo, it could have a picture of a kid, it would allow him to do so many things on the sign but he would love to be able to have graphics. If the graphics cannot move, then they cannot move. He would like to put Stevenson versus Deerfield, which are both customers, playing tonight with their logos on the sign. If one of his clients wins the Winter Nationals, which one did, which is a huge deal in the figure skating world, it would be nice to put his picture on the sign. A kid hitting a hockey puck would be neat. A girl doing a jump would be neat. Are they necessary, no, they are just neat. From his standpoint, he has always tried to convey his rink as state of the art and one of the best in the city from a computerization standpoint, from the way it looks, from the way he keeps up the building, etc. His sign looks horrible. When you drive by the sign you have to ask if we are in the 1960's. When they got approval for that sign that style was all that was available. Now he does not look like a state of the art ice rink anymore. He looks like something that is left over. If he cannot have the graphics he does not see not having one (1) less person in the building. It would just not be as cool. Color looks nice. If the Village does not like color he does not know why. The signs that he drives by look good. If he cannot have color, he guesses he cannot have color. Another issue is timing. If the screen cannot change but every thirty (30) seconds, he will not put up the sign. He would not be able to get across the information he would like to and he would have to use little letters instead of big letters and he will not be able to do what he wants to do. Currently they are in an adult hockey promotion for next season. His adult hockey league is exploding. He would love to have the sign say "Adult hockey — Sundays — at 8:50 — Register now". He could do that if he could change the screen every five (5) seconds or six (6) seconds or seven (7) seconds or eight (8) seconds. If it says "Adult Hockey—Sundays—at 8:50— Register now" at thirty (30)seconds, it will not accomplish his goal. Mr. Sheehan stated that the proposed rendering has two (2) lines of text and it looks like they are readable from far away. Mr. Sheehan asked Mr. Pivar if he did not think he could fit "Adult Hockey" on three lines that someone could read from a car. Mr. Wood stated that the way you can determine visibility is one (1) inch equals thirty (30) to fifty (50) feet depending on how you want to look at it. Thirty (30) feet if you are not a good visual person. Fifty (50) feet if you have twenty/twenty (20/20) vision. It is a perfect block font, black on white or yellow on black. When the sign changes faster, Mr. Pivar can put "Adult Hockey" in bigger letters that can be seen from further away than if you put "Adult Hockey— 7:30 registration" and all the information on one (1) screen. You would lose the place where you are at, whereas with the message center, you can put "Adult Hockey" change the screen quickly, then list registration, change the screen to show the date. If you try to spread the message out over a couple of screen changes with bigger letters, you can see the sign from further away and it is easier for someone to read that is driving by as opposed to cramming it all in one (1)screen. Mr. Pivar stated that when he drives by a Walgreen's sign that shows "Coffee $.89" the letters are huge. You really see them and they change and they can get two (2) or three (3) messages as you drive by. It hits you instead of just sitting there. The sign is pretty far off of the street. He came prepared to battle the residents because they really opposed the first sign. There were no residents at the ZBA meeting. So they must know that the ice facility is not a problem. It was really hard to get the first sign. He even had pictures of all the houses with the trees. He was ready to battle and no one came. Mr. Sheehan asked about the colors on the proposed sign. If Mr. Pivar was limited to certain colors Mr. Sheehan asked if he would have a preference. Mr. Pivar stated that he likes red, but Mr. Wood wants him to have amber. Mr. Wood stated that amber has a better visibility as a color. You can actually read that color from farther away. Mr. Pivar stated that he is not going to have a Budweiser logo on the sign. He will not have a Coke A Cola logo on the sign. It would be a Stevenson logo if he has graphics. It would be a picture of a kid or a hockey puck shooting into a net. They still have people call and state that they did not know that there is an ice rink in Buffalo Grove. Mrs. Neukirch asked about the hours of operation for the facility. Mr. Pivar stated that they are basically open from 5:30 a.m. and the last people leave at 2:30 a.m. so they are pretty much open all the time. The current sign is required to be turned off at 1:00 a.m. No one drives by from 1:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. At the ZBA they brought up 10:00 p.m. Mr. Sheehan stated that he believes that the comment at the ZBA was concerning the neighbors that could have some issues with the lighting. Mr. Sheehan stated that the lighting within the cabinet that currently exists is a lower illumination that the proposed LED. The screen changes also bring up an issue. A constant illumination versus a changing illumination. A changing illumination will catch your eye if it is in your peripheral vision. Mr. Sheehan believes that those may be some of the issues. Mr. Pivar stated that he would not mind addressing that issue if it comes up, but he does not believe it will. The sign is really far off the street. Most of the houses are perpendicular to the sign. Mr. Pivar added that with what is planned for Weiland Road in the future and the sound barriers being built at the houses, his sign will be a minor issue. Mr. Wood stated that what they consider their visibility where people can read the sign is actually the outer edge. Mr. Sheehan stated that he is sure that the neighbor's do not want to read the sign. Mr. Wood stated that since the LED is a point source light from straight on it is brighter but as you get farther and farther the sign gets a lot dimmer. It is not like a linear pattern. It gets dimmer as you get farther away. Mr. Pivar added that he has been compliant with the time restriction of 1:00 a.m. on the current sign. He used to have the sign on a timer. Once the button got stuck and the Village contacted him about the sign being on. He then switched to a computerized timer. Mr. Sheehan stated that he has reviewed the records and it does not appear that the Village has received any complaints within the last eight (8) years. Mr. Sheehan also did research the sign at the JCYS that had previously been mentioned at the ZBA meeting. At the time that sign was approved, there were no stipulations included in that variance with regards to timing of the screen changes, but that has come more into play based on comments that the Village has received over the years. But that sign has what Mr. Pivar does not want in regards to the smaller font. They do use some graphics, but there is no motion. That sign changes at about five (5) to six (6) second intervals. Mr. Pivar stated that if he could he would agree to monochrome at five (5)to six (6)second changes. The sign at the Westin is attractive as well as the sign at City Park. One (1) is in Lincolnshire and one (1) is in Wheeling and it is coming to Buffalo Grove. Ms. Neukirch replied that the Village understands that. The difference is that is Milwaukee Avenue and this is Weiland Road. Mr. Pivar stated that Weiland Road is about to become a super highway. There is a lot of traffic and a lot of noise. It was a nice country road, but it is not anymore. Mr. Sheehan stated that he cannot speak for the ZBA, but he believes that Mr. Pivar will have a hard time justifying the five (5) to six (6) second screen changes based on history and what has previously been approved not only at the ZBA, but also at the Village Board level. The Banner Plumbing sign on Lake Cook Road was allowed as it is more of an Industrial District. Mr. Pivar asked if that sign is any benefit to Banner Plumbing. Mr. Sheehan stated that their intent was to let people know that they are open to the public and the Village is unaware of what benefit it does or does not provide. Com. Windecker stated that Twin Rinks wants to increase business. That was the comparison to the rink in Rolling Meadows. Mr. Pivar stated that it would be nice to increase business. Com. Windecker stated that to increase business is a hardship and that the ZBA understands. When Mr. Pivar stated that the sign would be nice to look at as you go past, there are a lot good things people would like to see. Com. Windecker asked if that is a hardship. Will that increase business because the intent presented at the prior meeting was to increase business. At that time Com. Windecker mentioned that there were so many rinks in the area and they realize what the problem is. Is the intent of the sign just to look nice because that is the future thing or does the Village look at other towns that have restrictions such as Mount Prospect which has an Illumination limit of five thousand (5,000) nits during the day and five hundred (500) nits at night. Mount Prospect will allow ten (10) second screen changes if you can prove you need the ten (10) seconds, otherwise it is thirty (30) seconds. Mount Prospect also does not allow motion or anything like that. Mr. Wood replied that Chicago does allow that. Com. Windecker stated that if you go up 294 from Oak Brook to Touhy Avenue there are seventy three (73)signs of which only eight (8) are LED. Mr. Wood believes that if your sign is off at night, it would decrease your business. Com. Windecker replied that everyone says the sign will increase their business. The Village does not know if Banner Plumbing has increased their business due to the sign. The Village does not know if the car wash increased their business yet because after their approval, they have not yet installed the sign, but it does not seem like they are out of business. Mr. Pivar stated that he is providing stats from people that are saying the signs worked. He thinks the Banner Plumbing sign is terrible. It is on the side of the building. It should be double-faced so it can be seen on Lake Cook Road. He thinks that sign would be bad for business. Mr. Pivar's sign is perpendicular to the road and would be good for business. Com. Windecker asked by what amount do they expect to increase business. Mr. Wood stated that there are many factors that determine that. He could not say that the ice rink would increase by six hundred forty four (644) percent. He does know that more people would be able to see his sign, it is advertising. He does not know by how much. He could tell how many cars are going to drive by the sign. He could not tell you how many more people will read it. He can conduct a study that will tell him that, which he has already provided studies that shows that people do look at the LED signs more than other signs. Mr. Pivar added that he believes that the sign will look cool. His current sign looks horrible. It may be silly but it is reality. His customers will like it. The vast majority of them are Buffalo Grove residents. People will pay more attention to it. Maybe someone who does not skate will try skating. Maybe an adult driving will know that they have adult hockey. Maybe a beginner will know that they have a free lesson on Saturday. He does a lot of things at his rink that cost a lot of money because they are cool. It makes it a neat business. He wants to put up a picture of a little kid who scores his first goal. Mr. Wood added they could recognize someone who skated at the rink that just won a junior national. It would be similar to the school signs that you see. Com. Windecker advised that the Village has no jurisdiction over the schools. Mr. Wood understands but added that it is the same sort of concept. It's for the public. Mr. Sheehan stated that the Village understands that. He also added that the Village does get calls about the school signs. There are a lot of people that like that style of sign, there are some people who do not care one way or the other and there are other people who hate them. Mr. Wood stated that is the same with every sign. There are some people that do not like a regular static billboard, but they love digital billboards. All Mr. Pivar wants to do is have a sign that looks nice and gets his message out. Mr. Pivar does not think that his sign now is getting his message out and it looks old. Mrs. Neukirch stated that overall she does like the sign concept. She believes that it would be an opportunity to promote the different programs offered and the events that take place at the facility. It would serve that purpose and is more progressive than the current outdated sign. She believes that the Village needs to be sensitive to be consistent with the standards that are applied to all these signs with the understanding that some are on major thoroughfares and some are in residential areas. Overall from an appearance perspective, she does not have a concern with the proposed sign. Mr. Pfeil asked if members of the ART had any comments concerning the number of different colors and the interval of change. Mr. Sheehan stated that the standards that have been applied to previously approved signs have generally been thirty (30) seconds on the more recent proposals including Banner Plumbing and the car wash. Mr. Sheehan explained that when applying for a variance the applicant has to explain their hardship or unique circumstance, the rationale or reason to support the variance request. He does not believe that the Village will support the motion or the videos on the proposed sign at either the ZBA or Village Board level. It may be coming down the road, but it is not here yet. Mr. Sheehan agrees with Mrs. Neukirch. He likes the digital sign in concept more than what is out there now. It is an improvement over the manual changeable copy in his opinion. He does not really like the manual changeable copy type signs. He thinks that the Village will have to be cognizant of the light intensity levels with the neighboring residential properties. It did say something that none of the neighbors attended the public hearing. It indicated that there was not a huge concern or at least they are not concerned with the current sign and they did not foresee a problem with the proposed sign. He believes that the limitation on illumination is something to be discussed and possibly after a certain hour going to a static sign, which would change at a lesser frequency. Mr. Wood stated that the sign could be programmed easily. Mr. Pivar stated that his last customer arrives at the rink around 10:45 p.m. After that no one is coming, people are just driving by. Mr. Wood added that people would be leaving the rink. He leaves around 1:00 a.m. a lot of times. Mr. Pfeil stated that the need on the public road for visibility and information is probably not as great at 1:30 a.m. that it would be at 5:00 p.m. Curtailing the amount of change and information later would be more amenable. Mr. Sheehan asked Mr. Wood about the study conducted regarding traffic traveling at 40 mph„ specifically what size would the lettering be to get a message across. Mr. Wood stated that it depends on the size of the word and the number of characters. People look at these signs for typically one and a half (1-1/2)seconds. So you want to keep the message to four (4), six (6)or maybe seven (7)words and then change it. It varies depending on the type of words. In Illinois, for the highways they recommend every ten (10)seconds and six (6)to ten (10)words. That does not always happen but that is what the Outdoor Advertising Association of America recommends. If they are changing every eight (8) seconds, with four (4) lines of copy, you will be able to see two (2) messages in that amount of time. You want to be able to finish the message before traffic goes past the sign. Mr. Sheehan stated that he does understand what is being said. He finds that when he is traveling past certain signs that you want to read the message and that it does not cycle too fast unless you are at a stop. Some signs are trying to put too much in the message. The messages need to be kept short and simple. Mr. Wood stated that graphics next to a message would be helpful too. Rather than typing the word "Window" if you see a picture of a window it is a quicker response time. When driving by and you see a graphic you will read the sign faster. He never thought that the Village would allow a video motion screen. He has not seen any in the Village. He knows that schools have signs that do but he also knows that the schools have their own jurisdiction. Mr. Sheehan stated that as far a graphics, Mr. Pivar will need to explain what the intended use would be. Staff cannot say what the ZBA or Village Board would ultimately support. Utilizing graphics showing the different sport teams may be an acceptable threshold, but he is not sure. Mr. Pfeil asked about the graphics and if they would include team logos. Mr. Wood stated that it could be a head shot of a person that is on the ice or to advertise a birthday parties at the rink. Mr. Sheehan stated that he is not sure that the ZBA would be supportive of that. Mr. Wood added that they could also put Amber Alerts on the screen as well. Mr. Pivar could help the community with notifications. Mr. Sheehan stated that some communities have overrides where the Police Department could put up a message. Mr. Pfeil stated that a lot of different topics could be on the sign but he is asking about things that are not text. What encompasses the term graphics. Mr. Wood stated that he could make a graphic out of anything you take a picture of. Mr. Pivar stated that he was planning on putting the team logos that are playing at the rink, the company logo, the Sharks logo that you see a picture of. Those are the types of graphics that he was intending to display on the sign. Things such as clip art of a skater or a hockey player. Mr. Pfeil advised that he is just trying to convey that the use of graphics should be carefully thought out and not overdone, not just throwing stuff on the sign to be blatant and obvious, but more of a thought out approach to using the sign for information. Mr. Pivar stated that to put a picture of a figure skate and say figure skating classes start January 3`d, or a hockey player or goalie with text indicating that youth hockey classes start February 41h. That is the kind of graphics he was thinking of. Mr. Pfeil confirmed that they intend to convey information with a little bit of visual splash to it. Mr. Wood advised that they do not purchase the technology, they manufacture it. The sign has capabilities beyond the intended use. They will abide by what the Village tells them they can do. They are asking for full color, still images and logos. They want to convey that this is an ice rink and promote the games, classes and programs that are offered. Stevenson High School would love to have their logo on the sign. Mr. Sheehan stated that Mr. Pivar is asking for five (5) to six (6) second screen changes. He asked Mr. Pivar what was the longest interval between screen changes that would be acceptable to him. He does not believe that the ZBA would support five (5) to six (6) second screen changes. Mr. Pivar stated that the longest time between changes that he would be happy with is eight (8)seconds. Mrs. Berman stated that she believes that the proposed sign would be much better than what currently exists. She likes the idea of being able to have the school logos because supporting the organizations within the community is very much community spirit. A concern she has is if there are any issues with the residents. She knows that they did not come to the last meeting, but if the sign is approved and installed and the Village receives complaints, would Mr. Pivar be amenable to modifying the sign. Mr. Pivar stated that if there is a problem with the sign and the Village wants the sign to go static with thirty (30) second screen changes after 10:00 p.m. he would not have a problem with that. He also does not have an issue with reducing the intensity of the sign after 10:00 p.m. or going static. Mr. Wood stated that the sign could be programmed to reduce the intensity at a certain time. Mr. Pfeil asked Mr. Sheehan if there are issues with the proposed level of intensity during the primary use time of the sign. Mr. Sheehan stated that the sign would be seven thousand five hundred (7500) nits during the day and down to five hundred (500) nits at night. This is in line with other signs that have been recently approved. In previous cases night and day have been defined as sunrise and sunset. Mr. Wood stated that the sign is a photo cell. It is like daytime running lights on your car. Mr. Sheehan asked for Mr. Wood to provide information concerning what triggers the sign to dim down. There is no way to really gauge by time as the day time shifts. Mr. Wood stated that the area where the sign will be is pretty dark and at night the nit level could be anywhere from two hundred fifty (250) to five hundred (500) nits. The sign is adjustable by hand so if there is an issue the sign can be changed. Mr. Sheehan advised Mr. Pivar to be prepared to explain to the ZBA the hardship and need for the timing of the screen changes. Mr. Wood stated that based on the size of the text and speed of the road, his recommendation is to have the screen change once every eight (8) seconds. Mr. Sheehan advised him that it would be important to provide useful supporting documents including pictures of what the sign was going to actually look like at the ZBA meeting. If they could provide a presentation that could be shown to the ZBA visually depicting what is being requested that would be very helpful for them to visualize what the sign would look like. Mrs. Neukirch stated that to get the full message across you do not want too much text on the sign. Mr. Wood stated that there are two (2) panels of text that could be read in eight (8)seconds. RECOMMENDATION The ART has determined that the appearance of the sign as proposed and as further limited below meets the criteria set forth in the Village of Buffalo Grove Appearance Plan and is in harmony with the building and is compatible with the surrounding area. This determination is subject to the following conditions: 1. The colors on the LED digital display be limited to black, white and purple; 2. The sign is limited to the promotion of Twin Rinks ice rink activities only; 3. Limitation of one (1) logo per screen with logos limited to sports team Togo's and organization Togo's for events at the facility; 4. Hours of operation are limited to 6:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. The electronic message board sign shall turn static with no screen changes after 10:00 p.m. 5. Provide to the ZBA the evidence and need to justify eight (8)second screen change intervals.