2011-02-28 - Appearance Review Team - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑Appearance Review Team
Document Type: ❑A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 02/28/2011
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
ART (Appearance Review Team) Meeting
FEBRUARY 28, 2011
Shah Residence — 2833 Whispering Oaks Drive
Attached Garage Addition and Second Story Addition
PRESENT
Ghida Neukirch, Deputy Village Manager
Carol Berman, Deputy Building Commissioner/Administration
Brian Sheehan, Deputy Building Commissioner/Operations
Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Nidhi Vaid, Associate Planner
Joe Wallace, Plan Examiner
PROPOSAL
Request is being made by Mr. Shah, 2833 Whispering Oaks Drive, to construct an
attached garage addition onto the rear of the existing side-loading garage. They are
also requesting to construct a second story addition in the rear of the home to enclose
the existing second story deck and convert into an office.
The materials are proposed to match the existing construction. A second curb cut is
allowed in the R2 Residential District, Engineering approval is pending.
There were no questions or comments.
RECOMMENDATION
ART recommends approval subject to the following:
1. Materials to match the existing construction in like kind and quality;
2. Subject to Engineering approval of the second curb cut.
Board or Commission: ❑Appearance Review Team
Document Type: ❑A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 02/28/2011
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
ART (Appearance Review Team) Meeting
FEBRUARY 28, 2011
201 MILWAUKEE AVENUE, SPEEDWAY
SIGN CODE VARIATION TO REPLACE THE EXISTING MANUAL CHANGEABLE
COPY PRICE SIGNS WITH DIGITAL LED PRICE SIGNS
PRESENT
Ghida Neukirch, Deputy Village Manager
Brian Sheehan, Deputy Building Commissioner/Operations
Carol Berman, Deputy Building Commissioner/Administration
Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Nidhi Vaid, Associate Planner
Joe Wallace, Plan Examiner
Louis Windecker, ZBA Commissioner
Andy Stein, ZBA Commissioner
John Boyd, Sunshine Electronic Display Corporation
Tony Jaynes, Speedway
PROPOSAL
Request is being made by John T. Boyd, 633 Montezuma Road, Keystone, CO 80435
on behalf of Speedway Super America, 201 Milwaukee Avenue, for variance of Sign
Code, Section 14.40.025, pertaining to Changeable Copy Signs, for the purpose of
replacing the existing manual changeable copy price signs with digital LED price signs.
Mr. Boyd explained that the existing sign is the old style sign. Speedway is gradually
upgrading all of the older signs with the LED price signs. LED is new technology. By
upgrading to the LED price signs, this will avoid having to send people up thirty (30) feet
in the air to manually change the signs. He was up on the catwalk today and it was not
fun. It was coated in ice. The new LED price signs will also clean up the look at of the
sign. The existing catwalk would be removed. The external lights would remain to
illuminate the Speedway logo. The proposed price signs would have thirty six (36) inch
high numbers, which would replace the current forty five (45) inch high numbers. The
new numbers would be wider than the existing numbers in order to be more conforming
to industry standards. The illumination of the LED would be at fifty (50) percent during
the day and ten (10) percent at night. This should be less objectionable to the
surrounding properties.
Mr. Sheehan advised that based on the Annexation Agreement, this sign is allowed to
remain on the property until 2017 at which time it would need to be brought into
conformance with the Village sign code. He asked if Speedway is aware of this
condition in the Annexation Agreement. He also asked if it would make sense to replace
the current sign now instead of waiting until 2017 since they were contemplating doing
this modification.
Mr. Jaynes stated that he is not aware of the 2017 deadline, but he will review this
information with corporate.
Mr. Sheehan asked Mr. Jaynes to have the representatives of Speedway reaffirm that
they are aware of the 2017 deadline to bring this sign into conformance and advise if
corporate chooses to move forward with the request as proposed.
Com. Stein advised that the petitioner take a look at the Speedway sign at the location a
little farther north on Milwaukee Avenue. Maybe corporate will decide to take down this
sign sooner. Mr. Jaynes stated that Speedway is trying to retrofit all their existing signs.
They may not want to spend the additional money for 5 years.
Mrs. Neukirch agrees with Mr. Sheehan's recommendation to upgrade the sign. If they
are looking to make a change to the signs, make it for the long term. The background
on the current appears to be fading in the exhibit supplied, but that may just be due to
the quality of the picture.
Mr. Boyd stated that Speedway has found that these types of sign are the most effective
to generate sales. They are big signs and Speedway would probably want to keep this
up until 2017 and then change the sign. Speedway has approximately fifty (50) to one
hundred (100) of theses types of signs. If they had to remove the sign, they would take
the LED price signs down and put them on a different sign. They would also reface the
logos if they are found to be faded. The logo at this location does not look as bad as the
picture.
Mrs. Neukirch asked how often the far right sign, which currently has the price of coffee
at .99 cents, would be changed. Mr. Jaynes advised that panel would not change, it
would be static. He added that it is a big priority for Speedway to ensure that their
employees are safe. To change this sign over to a monument sign would be a last
resort. Mrs. Neukirch confirmed that the far right panel would be limited to a generic
product and pricing for that product. Mr. Jaynes added that the panels are internally
illuminated.
Com. Windecker asked about similar signs in the area. Mr. Boyd believes that there is a
similar sign in Chicago. Com. Windecker advised that the ground signs in this area are
monument signs. He also stated that three (3) foot high numbers are awfully large. The
Shell price signs down the street are two (2) feet high and appear very large. Mr.
Jaynes explained that a majority of the ground signs are ground mount or two (2) pole
mount signs. Mr. Boyd added that they are replacing the existing four (4) foot tall
numbers with three (3) foot tall numbers. They would be smaller. Com. Windecker
believes that they are still very large.
Mr. Jaynes explained that this sign was installed for the high traffic in the area. Com.
Windecker asked for them to look at other signs in the area. The sign in Prospect
Heights is not even illuminated. Other signs are not as large. He asked them to consider
a more normal size sign.
Mr. Boyd stated that if Speedway can keep the sign until 2017 they will want to keep it
until then. The LED's are less expensive to replace than what is there now. They can
put in a new ground sign, but it will cost a lot more and history has shown that it will
reduce sales.
Mr. Sheehan asked if Mr. Boyd can produce the data to support that a smaller sign
would effectively reduce sales at this location. Is there documentation available from
other stations that have removed or decreased the size of their signage and then shown
a subsequent decrease in sales.
Mr. Boyd stated that he can not produce that data, corporate will not release it. He has
been told by corporate that they can expect the sales to drop between ten (10) and
twenty (20) percent if a smaller ground sign is installed.
Mr. Sheehan stated that he could appreciate that information, if they were talking about
a sign along the highway or an expressway, where the sign has to be visible form a
greater distance in order to make the decision to exit to get gasoline, but in this case, if
you do not see the sign until you are on the overpass, it is too late as you have passed
the exit.
Mr. Boyd was asked if there were any studies that were done to confirm the sales
decline information. Mr. Boyd explained that there were no studies conducted. The
information is based on sales information, which is not divulged by the company. They
look at the same store's sales with the sign in place and again at the sales once the
sign has been removed or reduced. It is very important for people to see the price. It
drives the business. If the ZBA denies the request, Speedway will most likely keep the
sign as it exists until 2017 when it has to be replaced.
Com. Stein would like some written acknowledgement from the corporate entity that the
request to replace the existing sign with a code compliant sign was presented and
rejected.
Mrs. Neukirch agrees and requested a written acknowledgement from Speedway
regarding the 2017 deadline.
Mr. Boyd stated that if the sign had to be removed in two (2) years, Speedway may
decide to replace it now, but since they have six (6) years, he believes that they will
decide to wait. However, the safety of their employees is very important to them, they
would prefer to make it safer by adding the LED pricing and keep the employees from
having to climb up thirty (30) feet in the air to change the sign. This current sign is over
twenty five (25) years old.
Com. Windecker asked about the number of signs existing that have the catwalks. Mr.
Boyd stated that there are approximately twenty five (25) to thirty (30) signs that
currently have the catwalks. He re-iterated that he believes that sending someone up on
the catwalk is dangerous.
Mr. Pfeil asked Mr. Sheehan if products are generally allowed on changeable copy
signs.
Mr. Sheehan replied that on the most recent service station sign we discouraged the
specific product placement and the petitioner acquiesced to the suggestion.
Mr. Pfeil asked Mr. Sheehan if any of the recent changeable copy service station price
signs were allowed to advertise a product.
Mr. Sheehan advised that they were not.
Mr. Pfeil asked the petitioner why the diesel price numbers are green in lieu of red.
Mr. Boyd stated that green is now the standard color for diesel gas pricing. The pricing
will get more confusing in the future with the introduction of more fueling options.
Mr. Pfeil asked if any other municipalities have expressed concern about the LED colors
and if they have allowed three (3) colors on digital display signs. He questioned why it is
necessary to use a bright yellow background for the word "DIESEL," since the green
numbers adequately convey the necessary information to motorists.
Mr. Boyd stated that he has never been questioned regarding the colors.
Mr. Pfeil asked if the green numbers for the diesel price is Speedway's color or if this is
the industry standard diesel fuel pricing.
Mr. Boyd replied that they are both. He added that not all service stations carried diesel
fuel. The color identifies that they carry diesel.
Com. Windecker stated that a gas station in Vernon Hills that carries diesel has all of
their pricing one (1) color.
Mr. Boyd added that he recommends that the background color for all LED signs should
be black. It makes it more difficult to read the sign otherwise. Mr. Boyd presented
electronic photographs of the existing sign and other Speedway signs that have been
retrofitted with the LED price signs. He explained this sign could be seen very well from
a Y8 of a mile away. It could be seen somewhat well from a Y4 mile away.
Mr. Pfeil asked if speed was a variable in this determination.
Mr. Boyd stated that a high rise sign with seven (7) foot tall numbers can be seen from
3/ miles away on the highway. The sign itself is usually set '/ mile away from the off
ramp. That gives the driver a Y4 mile to decide if he needs to stop and fill up with gas.
That is approximately fifteen (15) seconds.
Mr. Sheehan asked if Speedway would reduce the nit level if the Village receives
complaints from neighboring property owner.
Mr. Boyd stated that they would agree to a stipulation in the approval that if complaints
are received they would reduce the illumination level of the sign accordingly.
There were no additional questions or comments.
RECOMMENDATION
The ART has determined that the appearance of the sign as proposed meets the criteria
set forth in the Village of Buffalo Grove Appearance Plan and is in harmony with the
building and is compatible with the surrounding area subject to:
1. Written acknowledgement from Speedway that they are aware of and intend
to comply with the requirement of the Annexation Agreement that all signs on
the property are brought into conformance with the Village Sign code by
December 10, 2017;
2. Written acknowledgement from Speedway that the ART suggested that the
existing sign should be replaced with a code compliant sign, but this
suggestion was rejected by Mr. Jaynes and Mr. Boyd;
3. Limit the far right panel to a generic product and price for that product The
product advertised shall not be any alcohol or tobacco product;
4. Provide a fully dimensioned sign rendering including the overall sign
dimensions, dimensions of each individual component or area of the sign,
including the width and height of the individual digits that make up the price;
5. Limit the LED pricing display to red, with the exception that the price for diesel
fuel can be displayed in green; and
6. Limit the product description above the pricing to a black background with
white lettering.
The request for the variance from the Sign Code will be heard at March 15, 2011 Zoning
Board of Appeals meeting.